Curse

Cure For Road Rage · Feb 22, 2008, 02:17 AM // 02:17

k, i'm totally clueless bout this. so i'm using way of the lotus+jagged+wild+death blossom, and i still can't get enough energy in time to keep shadow form up and running. help?

LazyLink · Feb 22, 2008, 02:24 AM // 02:24

if energy is a problem for any assassin, i suggest getting critical strike and/or critical eye

You can't see me · Feb 22, 2008, 03:52 AM // 03:52

Are you using +5 energy daggers?

Pvp4lyfe · Feb 22, 2008, 05:12 AM // 05:12

for "perma shadows" i use sumthing like jagged, lotus strike, horns of ox, falling lotus, death blossom or sumthing that has 2 nrgy attacks

Cure For Road Rage · Feb 22, 2008, 08:34 AM // 08:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by You can't see me

Are you using +5 energy daggers?

yes, and radiant insignias too

ACreator · Feb 22, 2008, 08:38 AM // 08:38

try way of the lotus or critical strike as a dual atack

odly · Feb 22, 2008, 10:56 AM // 10:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by You can't see me

Are you using +5 energy daggers?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cure For Road Rage

yes, and radiant insignias too

Wrong answers.
More energy will not help you with energy upkeep.

Zealous daggers are the only mod an assassin needs most of the time.
Critical Strike (and/or critical eye) as posted above if you still need more energy.

You can't see me · Feb 22, 2008, 05:04 PM // 17:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by odly

Wrong answers.
More energy will not help you with energy upkeep.

Zealous daggers are the only mod an assassin needs most of the time.
Critical Strike (and/or critical eye) as posted above if you still need more energy.

Not saying that it will be of help to his personal problem, but whenever someone gripes about assassins, I ask them if they're using these. 15^50 is a waste, as proven in a damage calc thread a while ago. Use search for it.

Yes, Zealous daggers should be what you're looking for.

+5 energy zealous daggers.....

Div · Feb 22, 2008, 06:53 PM // 18:53

The only reason why you'd want +5 energy daggers or radiants is if you can't finish your main combo. E-management is different from energy pool, with the exception of finishing a combo. Granted, in that build your dagger mastery is so slow that 15^50 isn't that helpful, but if you don't need the +5 energy, then you might as well take it for some extra damage.

Bowstring Badass · Feb 22, 2008, 09:35 PM // 21:35

Try Golden Lotus Strike, Lotus Strike, and Critical Strike as your attacks all give you energy.

Trinity Fire Angel · Feb 25, 2008, 04:30 AM // 04:30

just a stupid question, how do you make a perma-shadow? i can;t seem to find it anywhere. you wouldn;t be able to fully get a perma-shadowform tho? it is hard enough for an ele to get perma obsidian flesh....

please enlighten

Bowstring Badass · Feb 25, 2008, 03:40 PM // 15:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trinity Fire Angel

just a stupid question, how do you make a perma-shadow? i can;t seem to find it anywhere. you wouldn;t be able to fully get a perma-shadowform tho? it is hard enough for an ele to get perma obsidian flesh....

please enlighten

Other then your crappy typing...

You use arcane echo and shadow form with deadly paradox with a pair of 20% enchant daggers. You hit deadly paradox then arcane echo then shadow form. Right before the echo'd copies goes away (about 2 seconds) you use the echoed copy. Only way to get owned then is by touch skills and signets (who runs those anymore).

Jaigoda · Feb 25, 2008, 07:31 PM // 19:31

Also, non-targetted AoE attacks, as well as on-hit damage stuff like Riposte and Retribution, even traps, will go through SF. Basically, anything that doesn't directly target you, plus skills and signets, can hit you.

Sir Pandra Pierva · Feb 26, 2008, 06:33 PM // 18:33

its fun for griefing people but thats it.

Trinity Fire Angel · Feb 26, 2008, 11:27 PM // 23:27

ahhh... i see. deadly paradox. how would this go in HA? Greifway? lol

sorry about the crappy typing. i broke my hand a long time ago and i can;t reach the ' key properly when i touch type. really, these days i can;t be stuffed using the proper key. i think of it as my own unique style.

and i don;t believe in using capital letters much either. :P

tehshadowninjar · Feb 26, 2008, 11:43 PM // 23:43

Well, once SF runs out, you're left with 50- health. If you have Rip Enchantment, Rend Enchantments, or any kind of enchant removal you're screwed, bad.

Trinity Fire Angel · Feb 27, 2008, 12:02 AM // 00:02

um,mm... i don;t think Rip or Rend work on shadow form. only Chilblains.

itsvictor · Feb 27, 2008, 02:29 AM // 02:29

Chili beans got nerfed to target spell! omg! (No seriously, so many people have so much trouble spelling that skill right they should just rename it to chili beans

)

FengShuiDove · Feb 27, 2008, 06:26 AM // 06:26

Only signets and PBAoE remove Shadow Form now. The perma-Shadow is one of my favorite builds and regardless of what anyone says, one of the most underestimated builds in the game, a fact which I'm glad of because popularity would probably draw nerfs.

At any rate, to the problem at hand, with the DP nerf, make SURE you time your perma-Shadow chain cast so that you don't need to use DP on the echoed copy. Sounds simple, but when DP was 5 energy I used it just to ensure the casting of the original went well and gave me a little more space. Now the timing is different (aside from the FIRST DP nerf that changed recharge time anyway =P). This will allow you to, if you use NO other skills, maintain the Shadow chain permanently and easily.

Now, in my experience, you can use a 5 energy skill on each Shadow Form (the original and the echo) and still maintain permanently with ease. This means that you're looking for a dagger chain with a NET loss of 5 energy. [skill]Golden Lotus Strike[/skill] and [skill]Lotus Strike[/skill] are both great skills for accomplishing this as well as letting you have some high-energy dagger attacks in your chain.

Zealous Daggers give you even more mobility with this, as would increased attack speed skills. Since I hope to heaven you're not using perma-Shadow in PvP, [skill]Critical Agility[/skill] coupled with Zealous Daggers will give you amazing energy gain and faster attacks and therefore damage.

However, I no longer use dagger attacks on my perma-Shadow. Since you've got a Mesmer secondary anyway, most DEFINITELY take use of either [skill]Spirit of Failure[/skill] or [skill]Channeling[/skill], or both, depending on the situation. Use Spirit of Failure on a melee target (it works even BETTER in HM, which is a nice bonus) who will attack fast and invest just enough in Inspiration to make the energy gain 2 per miss. I first came up with this when I needed a way to farm Aatxes and couldn't keep my energy up for Empathy (which was my conditional for a Black Lotus + Twisting Fangs combo back before I abandoned daggers). Since then, someone else figured it out and posted it on pvx. The build there is actually quite effective if you use it correctly.

That having been said, [skill]Empathy[/skill] is the main damage dealer on my perma-Shadow now. Without having to invest attribute points in either Crit. Strikes or Dagger Mastery, you can plop 10-11 in to Domination comfortably. You only need 3 or so in Deadly Arts and 4 or so in Inspiration plus your 12 in Shadow Arts. With a semi-recent buff to Empathy, this puts out killer damage, especially in HM where attacks come in faster.

In summary, what I run nowadays is a Domination Staff with +15e to give me a total of 55 energy while enchanted (which is... always =P) and a mainly Mesmer bar. It's also more broadly used than a dagger chain on the perma-Shadow - as stated I can farm Aatxes now with no fear of degen or damage from Riposte/Deadly Riposte and, as usual for Shadow Form, no fear of enchantment removal in most places.

Hope that helps, and best of luck.

P.S. Think about Channeling and Spirit of Failure making their way onto your bar even if you don't choose to replace a dagger chain. They're still great e-management with a low investment in Inspiration.

RavagerOfDreams · Feb 27, 2008, 06:27 AM // 06:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowstring Badass

Only way to get owned then is by touch skills and signets (who runs those anymore).

everyone

to OP

listen to dove he actually knows what he's talking about